Listening to Toby Gard (in the Peru commentary of TRA) talking about how he didn't want to have Lara killing people reminded me of an issue that has bothered me in the past..

I will happily blast bad guys but I never felt totally comfortable with blasting innocent people. Not that i have a moral objection to blowing up anyone pixelated, innocent or not (I'll happily do it in GTA for instance), - but I don't feel that it matches the character of Lara.

There are a few instances I can think of, for example -

- Killing security guards in the Louvre and in Le Serpent Rouge (AOD)

- Killing Military Police in Area 51 (TR3)

- Wiping out the south pacific tribe (TR3)

- Killing russian soldiers (? Haven't played TR 5 for a long time so maybe I'm wrong) (TR5)

Now it's true that all these people are programmed to attack and kill Lara, but that's just daft. The Military police would all be innocent people doing there jobs. Would Lara really kill 'em? It's the same situation as with the Louvre security guards, sneaking up on them and breaking their neck. What the hell is that all about? She's meant to be on the run from the police because she's wrongly accused of murder.. except by the time you reach the hall of seasons she's guilty on at least 3 counts of 2nd degree murder.

Maybe a better option for these situations would be that rather than attacking Lara, the 'innocent' enemies try to catch/arrest here. This could be considered the same as death and you reload and try again.

TR2 got this right... All the bad guys you kill are working for Bartolli. You have the option to kill innocent monks if you like.. but you pay for it.

I'm glad this topic was considered in TR:A. Lara is reluctant to kill Larson and only does so because she weighs up the costs. That didn't bother me anyway because despite what he says, he's working for Natla, so not innocent (in my book anyway!), but I'm glad it was considered. Those cutscenes really develop Lara's personality. I hope this character development continues and she's not just a cold blooded killer in future games. Thankfully Toby Gard appears to care a lot about the character of Lara which is reassuring..

Anyway.. What do yous think? Do you agree it's a problem or has it never bothered you? Can you think of any more occasions?

LOL, it did bother me somewhat when Lara got to the London levels of TR3 and I had to kill security guards. My sister was working as a security guard in London at the time, so I wasn't impressed with Core's choice of enemy

I must say though, that it doesn't really sit right with me when Lara kills people who aren't clear-cut enemies. I dislike it when policemen and security guards and such people die in movies, and I dislike having to kill them in video games too. Really, I don't think that Core were thinking too much about Lara's personality from TR3 onward.

Although, to be fair to AoD, as far as I know Lara never actually killed any of the policemen or security guards. She had to taser gun to use during the Louvre levels (I can't remember if she had another weapon at that stage, but if she did it was the players choice to use it), and if you did the stealth attack on them she'd punch them out instead of neck-breaking them.

I thought the levels in AoD where Lara was weaponless and had to run from the cops to avoid being caught (which would end the game) were a great idea. It's a pity it wasn't developed more.

I too have to agree here. Even though in the games you didn't have to kill anyone, although in the case where your being fired upon...then you have to fire back unless you just want to be shot to death. TR 3 the guards could be lured to the prisoners, and the prisoners would take them out for you.

TR: Legend had you going against Takamoto and Rutland...but Rutland didn't die when you fought him the first time, only after Lara reforged Excalibur and used it that he did die. Amanda also wasn't killed, only knocked out.

If TR 8 is made...I don't see Lara using guns, she'll be back in a period of time where guns don't exist. I think that will make for a better game, she'll have to find a weapon to defend herself when needed.

If this were real, I might take the moral position of there not being any true innocents. Everyone is guilty of something.

That aside, I don't think Lara cares. She wants some relic or another. These annoying pests are between her and said relic. Down they go in a few (dozen, but still) quick shots. Huzzah, relic.

I doubt they can be classified as "innocent" in my book as they are armed and attack Lara in the first place...I think that only the orange-jacket guys from the VCI levels in TR5 are innocent completely.

I actually feel more guilty to shoot animals like tigers and monkeys in TR3 since they're just following their instincts to attack Lara.

I don't mind killing everyone, innocent or not, but I suppose it's dangerous for the younger people since game can influence a lot... It's just a bunch of pixels, although I hate seeing anything happen to Lara ...

Huzzah Questionable Content! Yeah, that really is all I can think to say. :>

Less humans and endangered animals and more crazy mummified monsters please!

I doubt they can be classified as "innocent" in my book as they are armed and attack Lara in the first place...I think that only the orange-jacket guys from the VCI levels in TR5 are innocent completely.

I don't mind killing people who are obviously out to hunt and kill Lara (such as all the baddies in TR2), but when Lara arms herself to the teeth and breaks into places (such as in TR3), it can't exactly be called self-defence anymore. I know that it's just a game and it's all just pixels, but it says something about the character that I don't particularly like when she goes about killing security guards. Core should have put a little more thought into it, I think.

I don't mind killing people who are obviously out to hunt and kill Lara (such as all the baddies in TR2), but when Lara arms herself to the teeth and breaks into places (such as in TR3), it can't exactly be called self-defence anymore

I suppose TR is a game to show how "violent" you are inside; after all you are the one that has a choice to arm Lara to the teeth or not. Lara can just skip around and kill only the necessary, but we are the ones that chose what to kill. Maybe Core shouldn't have made the sleeping guard from TR5 a necessary enemy to kill, but I guess they wanted a bit of realism in the game.

What about the monks?? If she pops one they all attack...

I suppose TR is a game to show how "violent" you are inside; after all you are the one that has a choice to arm Lara to the teeth or not. Lara can just skip around and kill only the necessary, but we are the ones that chose what to kill. Maybe Core shouldn't have made the sleeping guard from TR5 a necessary enemy to kill, but I guess they wanted a bit of realism in the game.

Perhaps we do have some choice, sometimes, but generally we have to kill what's put in front of us (monks aside)... I think it was lazy of Core to ever put her in the situation...

When Tomb Raider came out the character of Lara was one of the strongest things about the game. It was what separated it from other games, and what stopped the series from dying even when they were releasing crap games. If they stop caring about her character development it totally undermines her.. (in the same way that putting her in bikinis posing on beaches undermines her character). And if she's killing innocent people then who is the bad guy? She's just Duke Nukem without the one liners! (Ok that's an exaggeration.. but the point stands!)

Oh yeah, you're right...

I really do like the way she reacts to killing in TRA, i'm very happy they did something about it. But throughout the game series there really were a lot of coldblooded bits. In TRL for example in Japan when's the boss fight, the evil guy (Takamoto or whatever his name was) said something like "You're invading my property, killing my men..." and Lara replied with an ironic voice "I've simplified your payment" or something like that.... Wow, what more can i say!

On the other hand, however, i can't imagine the game without sacrificing some few people (lol, i can't believe i said that). Otherwise there will be only rats and bats and wolves and so on... or some sorts of monsters. And i don't like to admit it, but i really hate those creatures, they freak me out and that's why i I prefer human enemies

Lara don't kill inosent people, she kill inosent animals

Actually don't think to give her a chance standing infront of an enemy waiting him to shoot her, she kills the one who kill her and she must save her life, and in chronicles its not true, she didn't actually shoot him, she just hit him, and he just fall on the floor and didn't die to don't let him make any alarm or to speak to his boss that there is a spy, How she want to save her life and finishing her mission without killing animals, or any enemy??!!!

I think that Legend was the only game that the killing was very unnecessary and kinda brutal because the world wasn't at risk if she didn't get Excaliber. In TR1/A Natla was going take over the world. TR2 Marco was going to use the dragon power to destroy. TR3 It is kinda unnecessary because she does kill innocent people but Sophia was using it to ruin people's lives but it most of it was unnecessary. TR4 those damn ninja's were in her way to save the world from Seth if she didn't kill them Seth would have taken over the world. In the VCI levels of TRC it is brutal because she didn't have to kill all those guards just to steal something. TR6 she needed to stop Eckhart from killing all those people and reviving the Nephilim. TRL it was unnecessary. TRU Natla would have destroyed the world if she didn't get Thor's hammer. But this is just my thoughts on it.

I just had a thought on this. What if for instances like these (or just for fun) they gave lara a new weapon...a Tazer or even a tranqualizer dart gun. Something that would simply knock them out long enough to get by.

In Underworld there was a tranquilizer.... I never used it though because it was too annoying for me to have to shoot them again every couple of minutes. I think Anniversary was the best game in terms of killing, it always seemed necessary. In Legend I did feel kind of bad because Lara was killing guys constantly.

It looks like in the new game they have addressed this issue very well. Lara feels remorse and doesn't want to kill the wolf, etc.